Curse

REDdelver · Nov 18, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Nothing needs a buff.

For all the people who say mesmers need a buff.....are nuts.

I ran through HM pve with my own "mesmerway." Mesmers are the one char that you can use several bars to shutdown any class coming at you. Armor ingnoring damage in HM....and yet they need a buff? Pfff

Most people want to rely on one skill CoP???? Sad. Make some bars, that no one wants to run that works. I DID. Stop looking at what everyone else runs and build your own. I DID. And my bars work extremely well.

I think some people have the right idea. Its based of the meta, when people start getting into what needs a buff. If your bar/proffesion isnt wanted, then make your own group using what you think will work. Tweak if needed.

merciless_mike · Nov 18, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Paragons need to be functional at something that will make them acceptable in Elite areas. They either need to be able to pump out DPS or Heal sufficiently to replace a monk. Other than that they are pretty much only good for HH support.

It seems to me that few people can see the potential of paragons. This is one class that for sure doesn't need any changes IMO. A few alliance buddies and I run FoW with a team of 8 paras regularly, takes us a leisurely hour but it's no trouble at all.

I think people need to just be more open minded about using other classes in their party make-ups.

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 18, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

dervish=unused in pug teams everywhere

mrdbeau · Nov 18, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marzipan Marci

The current pve-metagame is already too easy compeared to the game style two-three years ago. PvE is too easy now. Nothing needs a buff.

Enough said.

[/endthread]

jonnieboi05 · Nov 18, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeliqueSynner

Spirit spam was a PvE buff.
PvP they still take 3 - 5 second to cast and about half that to kill. :/

lol... I am completely aware of this. Maybe you should read the thread title. In case you can't find it, let me copy and paste it. In bold. And underlined. And in italic.

What Class do you think could use a buff in PVE?

In case you missed that, let me be more specific:

What Class do you think could use a buff in PVE?

~LeNa~

Fitz Rinley · Nov 18, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Paragon the co-dependency profession. No wonder they run around shouting with their pants off like a drunk person - they are probably drunk from lack of self-esteem and value.

There is One vetted general PvE build for Paragons in the Great Category and it is fully dependent on a high faction rank to run A Warrior Skill efficiently. It leaves the Para wide open to degen, and with the lowest AC in party, the focus of enemy attention. They have One vetted running PvE build in the great category, which is also dependent on a PvE only skill. They have One vetted farming build in the Great Category - which is useful perhaps if you want a dead sword. They have One hero build vetted in the Great Category. The most efficient a Para ever could have been was still dependent on a Faction skill (Ursan) and would have used Zealous Daggers with High Leadership and Dagger as a ParaSin, (Nerfed). They have the least prominence in number of builds that are useful, and no PvE straight paragon builds that can function as a pure Paragon and hold value to a party. Paragons are undesirable for party participation in all elite areas: FoW, UW, DoA, Urgoz, and the Deep - and almost useless without Faction based skills to augment them.

While the mesmer comes a close second for interest to players because their effects can't easily be seen by other players, they are still considered critical for interrupts and degen. Dervs may or may not be dependent upon Avatar builds, but have many more opportunities to be effective and can even DPS large mobs using spell damage and never hitting with a weapon (Avatar of Lyssa with PBoA and high energy enhancements/weapons).

No other class is as useless across the board as the Paragon, and I say this with my paragon having well over 20 titles. Almost all of it attained with HH or the assist of a fellow player with heroes, because Para's are undesirable for most game play.

A Lonewolf · Nov 18, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

dervish=unused in pug teams everywhere

Yeah, this bother me. I have dervish as a main character. I do lot of z-quests or at least I try. Nobody just want to take derv in their party qq
Good guild would help but I haven't found one yet..

MisterB · Nov 18, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Those aren't necessarily problems with the Paragon profession. They are more often than not a case of the GW population having a problem with understanding what a Paragon can do. If you are trying to solo farm with a Paragon, you don't understand the profession all that well. The Paragon is limited in number of skills available, along with the Dervish, as they were the last professions introduced. It follows that fewer pure builds are available with fewer skill choices to select from.

Running on a Paragon or any profession isn't that hard. Running isn't how the game was intended to be played anyhow. Who cares what PvX has vetted? Make your own build.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 18, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Those aren't necessarily problems with the Paragon profession. They are more often than not a case of the GW population having a problem with understanding what a Paragon can do. If you are trying to solo farm with a Paragon, you don't understand the profession all that well. The Paragon is limited in number of skills available, along with the Dervish, as they were the last professions introduced. It follows that fewer pure builds are available with fewer skill choices to select from.

Running on a Paragon or any profession isn't that hard. Running isn't how the game was intended to be played anyhow. Who cares what PvX has vetted? Make your own build.

I do have my own builds. What you fail to understand is that they do not matter. The only build that parties are ever interested in at all is Imbagon, and it is not something for which they ask or look. Paragons are not sought after in any elite areas. Specific clearing teams comprised of Assassins, Monks, Mesmers, Rangers/Trappers, Nukers, and Necros dominate. Nothing else need apply. Melee types are tolerated as the token Meat Shield Bait Punk to be gang banged by the mob while the rest take care of it.

MisterB · Nov 18, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I do have my own builds. What you fail to understand is that they do not matter. The only build that parties are ever interested in at all is Imbagon, and it is not something for which they ask or look. Paragons are not sought after in any elite areas. Specific clearing teams comprised of Assassins, Monks, Mesmers, Rangers/Trappers, Nukers, and Necros dominate. Nothing else need apply. Melee types are tolerated as the token Meat Shield Bait Punk to be gang banged by the mob while the rest take care of it.

No, I do understand that. Read the second quoted sentence again. Our opinions differ on the validity of a PuG's opinion on what I run. I don't need their help, and if they refuse to allow me in the party, I'll happily H/H without them.

Again, PuG mentality is the problem: If it's not on PvX with a Great rating, it doesn't exist.

Melee is far more valuable than just a dumb tank role. I'm even less interested in joining a party that sees no value beyond tanking for a melee profession.

Vulturion · Nov 18, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I never team with anyone but my brother any more, but from the hefty dose of PvE that we do together I can contribute:

- Our characters -
* He plays Warrior, Ranger, Monk, Assassin and Dervish.
* I also play Elementalist, Necromancer, Ritualist and Paragon.
* Neither of us plays (or currently has a PvE) Mesmer.

- Our heroes -
* Sometimes all Necromancers.
* Sometimes Elementalists and Monks instead or as well.
* Occasionally a Ranger if we want Broadhead Arrow for a specific boss.
* Maybe a Warrior if neither us is playing melee.
* Never take Elementalist, Mesmers, Assassins, Ritualists, Dervishes or Paragons.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 18, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

No, I do understand that. Read the second quoted sentence again. Our opinions differ on the validity of a PuG's opinion on what I run. I don't need their help, and if they refuse to allow me in the party, I'll happily H/H without them.

Again, PuG mentality is the problem: If it's not on PvX with a Great rating, it doesn't exist.

Melee is far more valuable than just a dumb tank role. I'm even less interested in joining a party that sees no value beyond tanking for a melee profession.

You cannot HH elite areas. You will not with HH complete FoW, UW, Urgoz, the Deep, and DoA with a Paragon - especially in HM. You will not complete a HM Dungeon book in the Eye completely HH. And Paragons remain useless in Pure Para builds without augmentation by a Faction skill (usually from another profession or not para related) or co-dependency on other classes.

Bob Slydell · Nov 18, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

Nothing needs a buff.

For all the people who say mesmers need a buff.....are nuts.

I ran through HM pve with my own "mesmerway." Mesmers are the one char that you can use several bars to shutdown any class coming at you. Armor ingnoring damage in HM....and yet they need a buff? Pfff

Most people want to rely on one skill CoP???? Sad. Make some bars, that no one wants to run that works. I DID. Stop looking at what everyone else runs and build your own. I DID. And my bars work extremely well.

I think some people have the right idea. Its based of the meta, when people start getting into what needs a buff. If your bar/proffesion isnt wanted, then make your own group using what you think will work. Tweak if needed.

This man speaks the truth and has good taste.

I agree with the Mesmer bit and I agree with making your own group bit.

No classes in PvE needs buffing, and the guy who OP was referring to needs to chill out and just H/H the game, screw GW players.

NecroticChanter · Nov 18, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by idril isildra

paragons, all they really have is SY

Agreed. Nerf SY and give us other options. Better yet just give us other options

Hellscream The Evil · Nov 18, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Schyte assassin makes more than [100 damage each hit]x3 enemies + 80% critical chance+faster attack speed+armor+deep wound+bleeding+faster movement speed: all of this in a SIGLE bar
how about shadow form? and daggers + asura scan?
please DON'T buff assassins, nerf them! -.-

however, mesmers really need a buff

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

By the way, Healing Prayers need to be toned down, Protection Prayers need to be revised, and Smiting Prayers need to be made something useful. I've been playing Monk lately and I've noticed that HB / UA is one of the reasons the game's so laughably easy.

On the subject of support classes not getting credit in groups, it'd probably help if their skills had more visible animations in PvE. For example, it's hard to tell when a Mesmer did an interrupt, but easy to see an Elementalist's Savannah Heat. However, if a Mesmer interrupt caused, say, a large blast of purple chain lightning at the target foe on a successful interrupt, it would be far more visible and teams would be more likely to identify the Mesmer's contributions or at least remember that the Mesmer is there contributing.

Bob Slydell · Nov 18, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

By the way, Healing Prayers need to be toned down, Protection Prayers need to be revised, and Smiting Prayers need to be made something useful. I've been playing Monk lately and I've noticed that HB / UA is one of the reasons the game's so laughably easy.

On the subject of support classes not getting credit in groups, it'd probably help if their skills had more visible animations in PvE. For example, it's hard to tell when a Mesmer did an interrupt, but easy to see an Elementalist's Savannah Heat. However, if a Mesmer interrupt caused, say, a large blast of purple chain lightning at the target foe on a successful interrupt, it would be far more visible and teams would be more likely to identify the Mesmer's contributions or at least remember that the Mesmer is there contributing.

So..........you can't tell a Mesmer interrupted already by seeing your foe's skill stop in mid activation while the foe kinda falls down and up in a split sec at the same time? Of course..along with that infamous interrupted spell sound?

tealspikes · Nov 18, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Dervishes, because they are the only class currently not accepted in both PvE and PvP (excluding codex).

Fay Vert · Nov 18, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Just roll back all the stupid nerfs done to fiddle with the PvP meta.

Re-introduce Evade

Painbringer · Nov 18, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

None its a well balance finly tuned machine.

But if I had to pick mesmer (core skills mind you not basing decision on the highbreed Pve manipulator)